Your thoughts on MySQL5 upgrades? (feedback please) - Page 2

Terra · 11th April 2008, 09:53 PM

Mh - probably in a complete U-turn (just as well Vger is off sick), I'm going to put in support for MySQL5.

Why? Because MySQL4 becomes unsupported in Dec 09, so it's just question of getting the timing right.

Personally, I think anytime from Jan 09 would be open for debate, but site owners would need to be given enough warning to upgrade their scripts.

It will be upheaval - no doubt, a lot of old sites (e.g. osCom) will stop working, but that doesn't change the fact that we'll have to upgrade anyway at some point.

So - yes, people will be unhappy, but it's gotta be done. Just give everybody plenty of warning and as much time as possible to upgrade.

Edith

TygerTyger · 2nd June 2008, 09:36 AM

So...were any further thoughts advanced on the subject?

Vger · 2nd June 2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

just as well Vger is off sick

Not any more! The words "Over my dead body" or "December 09" are what come to mind - whichever comes first!

Vger

perfectfool · 3rd June 2008, 03:14 PM

I also would like to see this as soon as possible please!

JWolfe · 10th June 2008, 05:49 AM

Only just spotted this thread. I'm converting all my (few) sites to Drupal instead of hand coded. Some things work only in MySQL 5 or at least work better. IF MySQL 4 is going to become unsupported, I think a timetable for planned migration would be helpful.

UH-Matt · 10th June 2008, 06:05 AM

There will definetely be plenty of notice, and a schedule for the upgrade.. currently we do not have MySQL5 on our roadmap, its really upto the discussion here as to what priority we give to this.

canuckster · 11th June 2008, 06:40 PM

How do you anticipate the testing process? Will we be able to switch back and forth between 4 and 5 while testing, perhaps by having our own database connection code (with host, username and pass) use the current settings for MySQL 4, and a different set for 5? Or will it have to be an all-at-once switchover?

Charles · 11th June 2008, 06:44 PM

I think having MySQL 5 would be a very nice thing to have but for me it isn't a must have.

UH-Matt · 11th June 2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

How do you anticipate the testing process? Will we be able to switch back and forth between 4 and 5 while testing, perhaps by having our own database connection code (with host, username and pass) use the current settings for MySQL 4, and a different set for 5? Or will it have to be an all-at-once switchover?

There will be no switching. When MySQL5 comes, it is a straight swap rom MySQL4 all-at-once.

richandzhaoyan · 11th June 2008, 08:36 PM

My thoughts are have been summed up pretty much by others already, but to reiterate:-

- Having two osC sites that are critical to my business, and most definantely will not work on mysql 5, plenty of notice will be required. The later the better really from a "if it aint broke dont fix it" point of view. However, knowing that change is inevitable and that I will have to remove my head from the sand at some point, I just need to know well in advance when its going to happen.

- As Canuckster has said, if there is any possiblilty of a means of testing, this would be very welcome. I believe that it has already been mentioned that this may not be possible or practical, so it may be a case of testing on a local setup. Which again means more time to test so plenty of forward warning will be nice.

- With the above in mind, timing would be most important to me. Any change around the christmas period would be disastrous for online retail sites. This time next year would be about the best from a purely personal opinion.

To backup up the other feedback thread, I think UH's handling of the change to php5 has been outstanding. The roadmap for the event was laid out way in advance, giving site owners ample time (at least 8 months I believe) to prepare. The fact that UH set up the .htaccess method of switching between php4 and 5 was a great benefit to me and meant that on Monday mornng the only thing I had to do to get my osC sites live was change register globals to on. I was very surprised to read on this forum how many site owners were caught out by this and have a great deal of sympathy with the UH support team for having to deal with all the support tickets..... What more they could have done to prepare their customers I dont know. I had in fact prepared myself for some downtime on my sites due to the changeover and broken scripts but this was not the case at all, as the testing with the .htaccess obviously worked fine.

With this in mind, although changing to mysql 5 means more testing and extra work, it may well mean that I can use it as an excuse to look for alternatives to osC and/or factor it in with complete redesign of my ecommerce sites. So long as there is plenty of advanced warning, as there was with the php upgrade.

Either way, after the recent php upgrade I have plenty of faith in the UH team in implementing the change and appreciate the information and support they provide before and after the changes when needed.

Cheers,
Rich

UH-Matt · 11th June 2008, 08:53 PM

Just so we are all on the same page, we do NOT anticipate a change to MySQL5 during 2008, this will be next year. Right now we are just interested in everyones comments and then we will lay out our roadmap and give you lots of notice.

Once our php5 upgrades are finished we will be posting some information on whats coming during the rest of this year.

Thanks again all who have posted so far.

pursuit · 11th June 2008, 10:07 PM

php4 -> php5 v.s. mysql4 -> mysql5 is quite different as far as osc shops are concerned, whilst there is no changes need to be made from php4 to php5 as long as register_globals (just sit & relax waiting the upgrade to finish) remains ON, you do need to make some chnages for the latter, e.g. all old osc shops' queries containing 'left join' would fail albeit these are quite easy to fix and the way to fix them are quite long established and well documented. the best way to prepare for mysql5 is to run all your osc shops on a local server with mysql5 installed. The thing is whenever and wherever mysql5 complains you just need to locate that query/file and then edit it/fix it.

of course, just like php switch over that we have witnessed the past few days, the problem is with many osc shop owners who initially hired someone to install/customise the shops for them, and then they are on their own running the shops themselves (yes osc shops do not need the owners to know a single line of php code or mysql query). and that is where the problems start when it comes to upgrade. if youve ever worked closely with purely business-minded site owners you would know this is going to happen no matter what warning or ample time you have given to them.

all my clients are lucky enough to have technical backup which I provide so none of them are ever aware of any upgarde being carried out, and I dont bother to let them know anyway so they just focus on their business, which I see as part of the services.

canuckster · 12th June 2008, 02:25 PM

Would UH consider, at some point, adding one additional server that matches the configuration of the rest of its shared servers except that it's MySQL 5? Personally, I'd be happy to buy an additional Bronze package for a month or two to try my site out there. It would feel more reassuring than simply setting up WAMP on my home pc.

Thoughts, UH?

UH-Matt · 12th June 2008, 08:16 PM

I think it would cause a lot of additional administration time to setup a server which people are going to use only for a month or two.

canuckster · 12th June 2008, 08:39 PM

I was just thinking that eventually you'll be buying new servers as you expand, so if you bought one of them six months prior to the MySQL 5 switchover, you'd really just be buying it sooner than it would have been needed. You would lose money on depreciation, but just a few months' worth of added subscriptions (ie from people who would already be maintaining their current hosting packages on the MySQL 4 servers) should pay for that, and possibly more.

Of course it would require some number-crunching, and perhaps an email to the customer base to gauge interest.

Anyway, just an idea.

UH-Matt · 12th June 2008, 08:43 PM

We put new servers on everyday, but we need to keep things uniform in order to minimise the time we spend managing and administering systems. We have over 150 servers at this time.

If we added 1 with MySQL5 there would be a lot of time involved in setting up accounts which would only exist for 1-2 months, and then removing them again. Its not a viable option.

We will be moving forward with MySQL5 in a "standard" way just the same as any other host has done to this point.

We will be giving plenty of warning and plenty of information ahead of time to allow everyone to prepare.

Simon · 13th June 2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richandzhaoyan

Having two osC sites that (...snip...) most definantely will not work on mysql 5, plenty of notice will be required.

You commented on other points in your post as well, for example the 8 months that site owners had to update their sites, but you'll have noticed from Matts post half way through the upgrades that UH against their better judgement had to change the default value of register_globals to on following the number of problems osC siteowners had.

If site owners are going to wait until the day after the upgrades to do anything to ensure their sites work, I don't see any reason why we don't upgrade to MySQL 5 tomorrow.

TygerTyger · 13th June 2008, 08:22 AM

Because lots of site owners != all site owners!

Simon · 13th June 2008, 08:39 AM

Ok, so tomorrow was a slight exaggeration, a realistic time-scale is needed for those that care enough about their sites to check them out prior to an upgrade.

But whats annoying me at the moment, is the only people who are complaining about MySQL 5 are those that have osC, and the same happened when we discussed the PHP5 upgrades.

If osC is that slow to keep up with the new software versions then maybe another software solution needs to be found. I'd have thought with such a big following the developers of osC need to keep the software current.

All my sites are compatible with MySQL 5 and have been for the last 18 months or so.

I'm not overly familiar with osC having installed it only once as a trial and not liking it, so I'll leave my bitching at that. It just seems slightly unfair that one group of sites is affecting a decision that affects all sites hosted with UH.

Why not help each other out and start a thread with common updates that will need to be made to osC to make it compatible with MySQL 5.
or: Theres enough developers on this forum with osC experience to offer their paid services to help out the other UH clients to get the software ready for the upgrades that are likely to take place in '09.
If I had osc experience I'd be thinking of this as a great business opportunity, theres a defined target audience I could advertise to, with predefined targets, sounds like a great little money earner to me, patch the osC code once and just copy it across to all osC installs for a small cost, while your doing that you can check out the contributions and let the siteadmin know if they need to be fixed as well which you would be able to do for XX quid. sounds like a nice little money earner to me.

knapper · 13th June 2008, 10:04 AM

To an extent, i'm with Simon on this. I believe the present release of of oscommerce is mysql5 compatible. Mysql5 has been out for a while now so if a piece of software is still not compatible then it's unlikely to be updated to be compatible by, lets say, March next year. If UH announced today they were going to upgrade to mysql5 at the beginning of September then responsible site owners should be able to prepare there sites by then, and those that didn't aren't going to have them ready by any time next year either.